So What's The Deal With eBay? Intimidating The Sellers Into Eating The Losses On Unpaid Items?
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Avoidance Letter from ebay old-hippies (4117  )
(view
author's auctions)11/23/04 07:01 AM  |
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| I recently received a message
from ebay. Thinking it was a joke, I sent it to spoof@ebay.com. Two days
later, I receive word that the message was indeed REAL. It said I was in
voilation of ebay policies re: filing too many final credit value fees
(have had 42 since October 2003, and 16 of them were against the same
person). They told me to refrain from doing this. I wrote back and asked
'how in the world am I supposed to make someone pay? Tell me an answer'.
To me ... the letter is a very serious matter, it smacks of accusing me
of fraud against ebay. I have been a seller since January 1997, and I am
just floored. Now, I am AFRAID to file any more NPB's. I made copies of
the correspondence and will take to my lawyer. Has anyone else received
a letter like this? old-hippies |
dolphindesigns77 (95 )
(view
author's auctions)11/23/04 07:19 AM(#1 of 33) |
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| I wonder how they come up with who is 'overusing' this feature (according to them)--- percentage of sales vs NPB? If Ebay would screen the new id's more thoroughly, the problem wouldn't be as it is. Just reported a new user that BIN'd for ICI, either lives in Singapore or Australia...still not NARU'd...so I'll have to wait to file for my fees. Good luck to you! |
profdata (596 )
(view
author's auctions)11/23/04 07:32 AM(#2 of 33) |
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| You don't leave negs for
people that don't pay ? I only see three negs you left for buyers in the last year. maybe that got someones attention |
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dolphindesigns77 (95)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 08:01 AM(#3 of 33) |
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| FB is optional |
hotspringstradingpost (28 )
(view
author's auctions)11/23/04 08:05 AM(#4 of 33) |
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| Report the user that did the
bidding for auction interferance. Hope you are correct, and the isp is differet from yours. Always file the non paying bidder also. Ebay seems to think you are ripping them off. |
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call*me*laurie (57)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 08:18 AM(#5 of 33) |
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| Always file the non paying
bidder also. That seems to be the crux of the problem. eBay apparently thinks that old-hippies is misusing the UPI system. Old-hippies...could it be that the single person you filed the 16 UPI reports on contacted eBay and told them that the UPI's were erroneous? Something just doesn't seem quite right here... |
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spammer*slammer (2)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 08:19 AM(#6 of 33) |
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| This is totally bizarre. Please update when you get more information. |
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couldabeenworse (41)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 08:27 AM(#7 of 33) |
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| First of all, spoof isn't 100%
reliable, so double-check the headers if the only responses you received
were from spoof. I can think of a couple of situations that could raise some eyebrows. For example, if those 16 NPBs against a single user were spread out over time and were for valuable items. Or, if you file NPBs against people that provide evidence that they had paid. Or, if you are "mutually agreeing to cancel" most of the time. It would be interesting to hear any updates. Good luck... |
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old-hippies (4117)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 09:42 AM(#8 of 33) |
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| The person who had the 16 no
pays (she bought everything BIN on the same day) ... I even gave her
extra time to pay .... (I always file NPB's first) .. was to leave
negative feedback, and she had been suspended already. I have never done
a 'mutual' agreement to cancel. These final value credits were spread
out from October 2003 until just last week when I got the letter from
them. I sent the letter to spoof. Also sent it to cswebhelp@ebay.com ,
got replies from both that the letter is REAL. Yes, I hesitate to leave
negative feedback because of getting my own record smeared. I only have
2 actual negative feedbacks. Two were done 'way back when' the feedback
system was different. The negative 'button' was first choice and you
were able to click it by accident, yet leave POSITIVE feedback (which
two people did). I wrangled with the legal department for 2 years trying
to get it removed .. their 'hands were tied'. This fee avoidance thing
just really upsets me. I have 3 people right now who have not paid and I
have given nearly a month to pay ... I am afraid to file NPB's because
of that letter. Ingrid |
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hotspringstradingpost (28)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 09:54 AM(#9 of 33) |
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| The feild you are in will get
a lot of NPB. Dont know what to tell you. Due to ebays inability to verify bidders, they are now attacking the seller. Sounds profitable to ebay, and will run off sellers... LOL so whats new with what I wrote.... Nothing....... |
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damewraith (18)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 09:56 AM(#10 of 33) |
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| WOW! 42 in 14 months?? That is
a lot. I am sure that eBay is looking at this number and thinking that
maybe you are avoiding fees. I have been selling for 6 years and I do not think that I have had 42 unpaid items in that amount of time and I have more feedback than you. This is probably why eBay is being suspicious. Looking at your auctions, you ship to limited international locations. Are most of your unpaid items for international?? Do you have your seller preferences set to restrict some buyers such as those who are not from the countries you have set?? If you can figure out if there is a majority of your unpaid items are from buyers that you can restrict you may be able to reduce the amount of UPIs you have. Just a thought. |
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old-hippies (4117)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 10:34 AM(#11 of 33) |
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| Wow ... I didn't realize that
42 NPB's in 14 months was a lot. I just figured that everyone had a lot
of non-payers. I do put non-payers on my blocked bidder list. Have only
had one international bidder that didn't pay. And now, with the new 'seller can report you if they don't receive their item in 7 days' policy coming up .. I am honestly thinking of quitting ebay. I only ship on Monday mornings, so that will force me to really hustle (I have very few sales anymore since everyone and their 'dog' got in on doing dog prints & notecards). I agree .. looks like ebay is really turning the tables on sellers. It somehow always manages to tick me off when I remember the article I read re: ebay & Meg Whitman .. I guess the 'office joke' at ebay is 'a monkey could drive this train'. Guess that monkey singled me out and screeched 'fraud, fraud'. I mean, for a multi-million dollar company to tell me to knock it off (filing for final credits) ... geez. |
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damewraith (18)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 10:38 AM(#12 of 33) |
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| I have had NO unpaid items in
almost a year. See if you can find a commonality among your UPIs. If so, block them from bidding or state in your TOS that you do not accept bids from XXX. According to eBay, it looks to them like you are filing false UPIs to avoid some fees. You are not but look at the situation objectively. You have a HIGH amount of UPIs in the last year. You need to do something to try to cut that number down. |
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clewis3888 (1723)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 11:01 AM(#13 of 33) |
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| I find it amazing that eBay
has enough staffing to be looking into these kind of statistics &
warning sellers to decrease the UPI's BUT don't have the customer
service staffing to help the problems with NPB and NPS! We have to walk them through blatant cases of shilling and fraudulant listings and they don't get IT... yet they have the balls to accuse a seller of fee avoidance, no proof... just because they "think" so! Unbelievable! I would be furious! |
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beast-under-your-bed-in-your-closet-in-your-head (0)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 11:04 AM(#14 of 33) |
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| Hi old-hippies, First, do NOT be afraid to file when u are not paid. I file for EACH non-paid auction. I do NOT leave negative feedback for non-payment why should I, what good comes from that? Most non-paying buyers will leave u a neg in return, WHY TAKE THAT RISK. Let ebay police the site and rid itself of people that do not pay, that is ebays job NOT MINE. I have been selling on ebay about 6 years now. I like ebay, I am NOT an ebay basher. I think ebay is a good place to do business. Please keep us posted about this. I will check back from time to time. Good Luck, Beast |
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couldabeenworse (41)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 11:05 AM(#15 of 33) |
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| It would be interesting to see the actual email. Did they actually say you were in violation, or was it more of a warning - maybe automatically triggered when you npb/sale ratio is high or something. I assume they didn't specifically say you should file ANY npbs? |
ichi-jin-rai (213 )
(view
author's auctions)11/23/04 11:14 AM(#16 of 33) |
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| old-hippies, I suggest you change your auction/offering mode. Make all of your offerings fixed price auctions, with buy-it-now and Pay-now required. Set your fixed price to the current "opening bid" price you use, as it is attractive and I suspect the normal selling price. You will have NO non paying bidders. You will actually net more money and have fewer problems. You can also consider fixed-Price multiple item listings, with the buy it now, Pay nowfeature. That way your buyers can purchase multiples of the same item, and your fees are reduced! Ichi |
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clewis3888 (1723)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 11:26 AM(#17 of 33) |
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| The point is....eBay is using
intimidating letters/threats to get you NOT to file for fees that you
have a right to retrieve. This is not right! |
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dolphindesigns77 (95)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 11:51 AM(#18 of 33) |
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| consider fixed-Price
multiple item listings Is the listing fee lower for this? I've never done it that way before! |
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old-hippies (4117)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 02:01 PM(#19 of 33) |
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| To: couldabeenworse (and
others), this is a direct word for word quote from the actual letter:
'To keep your account in good standing, please refrain from this level
of activity. Otherwise, you may experience a reversal of the FVF credits
and/or suspension of your account'. I suppose their 'safety net' is the wording 'please refrain from this level'. I know they have a dream team of lawyers and would not be allowed to say anything they could be sued for !!! Many thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. I think the best idea (given in this forum by a fellow ebayer) is to sell at a fixed BIN price and require PayPal immediate payment. I will do all new listings in this manner. You guys are the greatest !!!! |
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ichi-jin-rai (213)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 02:04 PM(#20 of 33) |
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| dolphindesigns77, With the Fixed Price Multiple Item with the added Buy-it-now Pay-Now feature: You get charged One insertion fee. Then you get charged a small sale % for each item sold, but no further insertion fees. Sellers using this format normally run their sales for 10 day periods starting on Thursday evening in the USA, which gives the advantage of the auction having two weekends and ending on a Sunday evening. It is a great feature for seller's selling multiples of the same item. Ichi |
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dexterusa (1941)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 02:39 PM(#21 of 33) |
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| Since May of 2003 I have filed
244 disputes. About 80 resulted in getting my FVF and a strike against
the buyer. I have not gotten any trouble, I think for the number of
items I list I am about normal. Hippie's NPBs actually seem quite low to
me, for a seller with 5,000+ feedback. This does not make sense to me at all. I have to assume this is not normal procedure or that something is amiss. Not right at all... |
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savvy_sniper (35)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 02:39 PM(#22 of 33) |
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| I wonder if I should be
worried. I have 23 since April of this year! Mary |
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***silent*** (20)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 02:46 PM(#23 of 33) |
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| old-hippies could you please copy and past the e-mail (minus any personal info) for us to see? |
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mynewpostingid29 (11)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 03:01 PM(#24 of 33) |
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| What!!??!! This has to be a
mistake. If, we can't file for our fees when winning bidders don't pay
what are we to do? I'd like to see that email also like silent has suggested please copy and paste it so we can see it. If, Ebay is going to start limited how many UPI's I can report what's the point. I won't sell anymore and with the Item not Received thing Boy, this is just getting ridioulous. Hope, there is a very good explanation about this! |
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aviation (1115)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 03:22 PM(#25 of 33) |
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| I've filed 24 in the last
year, 9 of whom ended up paying. I wish I didn't have to file any. How
do you prevent getting NPBs? If people ask for extra time to pay, I
always give it to them. I only file NPBs on buyers who don't respond to
the invoice, a 2nd invoice, and the UID reminder. Ebay could cut way down on the number of NBPs we get by requiring a credit card to register. |
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willysgrandma (1949)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 03:23 PM(#26 of 33) |
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| OP: Have you contacted Live
Help and questioned them on this policy? There was an unpaid item workshop today - too bad, that would have been a perfect time to log in and ask them about what you should do with NPB's if they state you are filing too many!! How are we expected to make buyers pay? |
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ohduh! (private)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 03:26 PM(#27 of 33) |
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| Oh boy! We file an average of
7-15 UPID per month. From Oct 2003 to now...well you can do the math. 16 UPIDs against the same person may be the reason, but I don't see how ebay determines that the seller must be punished, and not the bidder. An attorney sounds like a very good idea. And do keep filing on your non paying bidders. If ebay cancels your account, I'd think your attorney can make a very good case for you. |
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damewraith (18)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 03:33 PM(#28 of 33) |
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| please refrain from this
level of activity. As a business person, you must do you best to reduce the number of unpaid items. Restricting bidders etc is one way. Do what you can to reduce the amount of unpaid items you have been receiving. It sucks that eBay is making sellers do this. |
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newdirtpaw (3)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 03:43 PM(#29 of 33) |
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| Yikes! I have had 90 NPBs
filed since 7/03. Most close with me getting my FVFs credited, some
close with payment by the NPB. Before you incur legal fees and have a stroke, see what your request for additional information yields. Is it possible that you are somehow filing incorrectly? (I'm not exactly sure how that could be, especially from an expereiced seller like you.) It may be that the red flag was the 16 against one buyer. |
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thumpertaz (private)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 08:36 PM(#30 of 33) |
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| Is it possible that some of your buyers have disputed the UIDs and because of this ebay suspects/treats you like a crook? |
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thumpertaz (private)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 08:36 PM(#31 of 33) |
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| That wasn't meant to sound hateful, I just couldn't think of a better way to say it. |
kickshawproductions (5305 )
(view
author's auctions)11/23/04 09:24 PM(#32 of 33) |
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| I've had 36 NPB's in the past 14 months... so I guess I get 6 more before I get that letter! |
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the_midnight_poster (19)
(view
author's auctions) 11/23/04 11:19 PM(#33 of 33) |
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| Maybe it's something new with eBay? Maybe some of you other sellers just haven't gotten your warnings yet? |
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